Debunk vs. Possibility

[erino]

The vicious was: - I thought the point that was being made, was an obvious gov lie situation. There for the, go on, was… for what.
That was all….

[davidfritzcaiprs]

No big deal. Emf is everywhere at any given time. depends on the level one is exposed to. The human being also emits emf at times. I personally do not look at emf as spirit or a source of spirit but field movement which can be associated with paranormal activity. Going into history of haunting after haunting in certain areas is good but its not worth it. People make history the way they want it to be. And what is written down or told by mouth is probably not the actual history because many things have been altered to fit, or just left out.

[erino]

Haha, the proud the brave the few… (not)
No, but see how easy it is to misinterpreted things? The same goes for evidence a lot. And if you weren’t here to defend my claim that that Is what you were talking about, could I sway people to see the same thing?
Extra Extra analyze..
Yes, and also history doesn’t do much but add to peoples heighten awareness of the activity and allow them to create it for themselves in my book.
When you truly have no background information about a haunting, experience it and then find history to back it up, that is a different story. But how often does that really happen?
Or are we just looking for history that supports a claim and putting the two together.
“correlation does not mean causation”, all the time.

[davidfritzcaiprs]

True. So where do we go from here now that all of the children have grown up LOL.

[erino]

What do you mean?

[erino]

To bring it back with out completely breaking down the whole of ghost hunting, because we’re going to continue to do it regardless:

No, it isn’t enough to offer suggestions as to what that knocking might be. Every group really should work the trades people who follow through on things, to truly debunk.
The client needs to call an exterminator to see if the are intact squirrels in the walls, and then the group needs to keep in touch to see if the ruckus stopped once the squirrels are out.
Even if there are squirrels, it seems the most likely cause for the knocking, yea but ya still can call it the squirrels until you know for sure.

I think in order truly debunk you need to be able to stop the activities, or duplicate it.
Or else really you are right, you haven’t done anything but float more theories.

“I see more and more where investigators conclude they have debunked a claim when, in fact, all they have done is offer an alternate explanation. To my mind the two are mutually exclusive. If I tear down a wall and discover the knocks coming from there are from a squirrel's nest - I have debunked it. If I suggest they might be from a squirrel's nest and you have nothing to worry about I have done nothing but floated another theory. This is an injustice to your client. I cannot then proudly claim I have solved the mystery”

That is why all you can do is- bump bump bummmp : LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

And If you all recall, I threw a fit about people talking about being better ghost hunters then others, ect over in the ghost tv programs thread. Well, now I am GLAD that goes on. And I think it needs to continue as long as it’s the right people, doing the right things to take the lead and make things more credible, like caiprs and riseup.
(which is kind of a bold statement because I don’t REALLY know how you guys investigate but I have somewhat of an idea from what has been said here)

That is enough out of me.

[riseup]

Hi Guys...what did I miss?...lol

I have to hurry here, I just had a tooth out and ate a percodan the size of a hibachi.

No, that is NOT enough out of you erino. Keep thinking out loud for all of us to hear and keep questioning conventional wisdom. Mine or anyone else's. There is no gospel in this field and there are no experts, and you have to dare to shake the cage from time to time and speak your mind. The purpose of my post was to do just that, to leave the wisecracks alone for a moment and say exactly what you profess to be glad about, that people who might have a TV or radio show or an Oxford degree aren't the final word in a field where there might not be one. I have complete and utter respect for any group that gives of themselves to seek answers to questions most people don't want to ask, but I also fear we're going to see a new generation of groups pop up spouting the same rhetoric or the same theories they see on television without first bothering to read Troy Taylor or Lloyd Auerbach or doing some due diligence research-wise. The field needs advancement and original thought, not imitators with money for gizmos. P.S. I would LOVE to set it up so you can come out with us. Think about it.

Dave...quoting the Alan Parsons Project...pretty cool.

Hey I love all you guys, man (uh, oh...perc kicking in...gotta go)

[tomydactnfigure]

Sorry, I'm really late on this posting, but I wanted to comment on something:

We are using specific equipment to read variations in EMF fields, but there are more than enough natural causes to changes in the wave patterns of EMF fields and when / how EMFs are created...Until we can locate a specific frequency of EMF which we can validly put to the test and say that it is not contamination from other sources, we're really just spinning our wheels...Everything has a specific frequency...If we go outside the bounds of the most common frequencies and we can still get responses to questions or variations in the fields, we can then test to see if they come from natural sources (outside of the ones we've configured our EMF to avoid) and then the potentiality of explaining another emf phenomenon or some sort of parapsychological phenomenon becomes more possible....Does anyone agree or disagree with this?

This seems to me that we are dealing mostly with higher intelligence and they seems to work around OUR WORLD and protocols to make themselves known, so if they can do it outside of the frequencies commonly used for appliances and created by geomagnetic fields, we have a greater possibility for showing how legitimate our field truly is to the outside world...

[riseup]

Tom I would say the closest I can think of to determine geo from man-made is the use of a gauss meter or magnotometer which are used to read DC instead if AC. AC being mostly man-made fields and DC being the field created by the earth's natural geomagnetic field. It's not in any way absolutely conclusive, but it narrows the scope a bit. Good points, thanks.

[kkaestner]

In this field we have to constantly think 3-dimentionally. The answers we are looking for are always hiding in plain sight. Debunking is always the game. We could get all the proof in the world of something paranormal and there will be someone else to try and debunk our findings. I love to take all the factors of what is going on and narrow it down to the right answer. It is not really debunking, it is finding the most logical answer.

[riseup]

Please forgive me for revisiting this, but I finally found something I had been searching for since I started this thread, but couldn't find. It was a test done on a subject that was experiencing poltergeist activity at her home. Investigating were Dr. William Roll and Dr. Andrew Nicholls from U. of West Georgia. The woman was complaining about things flying off shelves and hallucinations.

They found her home was built over an underground water source and they were living under 3 sets of power lines. The study revealed that her home had a "dead" reading of 144 milligauss. The average home is about 2-10 milligauss. This obviously was a fear cage she was living in.

However, a test was run on her using an electro encephlogram which tests something called Galvanic Skin Response (GSR). It measures the skin's ability to fend off electromagnetic waves. A normal person's reading is about 175. A very relaxed person goes about 80. Hers was 0. This made her unbelievably more susceptible to electromagnetic waves than the normal person meaning her brain waves were in greater possibility of being disrupted than most people's. It was determined that she was such a conduit for these things that she was causing physical objects to move! They affected her alpha brain waves that are the center of psychokinetic activity.

This was the ultimate reason for my put-down of the blanket theory that EMFs can cause these sensations in everyone. Sorry I was late and I thank you for indulging me one last time.

[belchazar]

Hello I am sort of new at this. I have been reading this string and I noticed a clock would set a emf detector to 10 milgaus. I know about the 5 point system of taking emf readings in a room. I dont understand this. If a clock would set a emf detector off reading 10 milgaus there are other appliances in the room which would set it off at various miligaus. knowing the detector itself I would think you would have to go up to each appliance using electricity and take a reading of that appliance up close, then slowly walk away from it and take the measurement of distance of how far the emf generates to. Like a clock measures 10 milguas up close walk out spike it to Zero then mearure the distance the emf generates out from the clock. Then do this with all the appliances in the room. Add up all the readings and distances of each emf for each item and come up with a base reading for the whole room. This would have to be done twice in each room with appliances on then off for an accurate base reading for a room to be established. The base reading of the room would probably be higher than most emf detectors can read because you still have to account for the wireing in the room generating weak fields. Well one might say if the combined emf readings taken is higher than the emf detector can read, just maybe the combined active fields generated create a totally different frequency which an electromagnetic field dectector could not pick up. But still could effect people in various ways. And I think as far as spirits in a room or haunting they would be pulling energy from the higher frequency, and putting out a lower frequency at the same time. This is where the detector could possibly be considered a valuable tool in hauntings.